RE: Radial mast Changes

["Crawford, Kenneth" <ken.crawford@xxxxxx>]

"the class is owned by the licensed builders"

WRONG!

The rights to build the design as it exists belongs to the builder.  The
class is owned by its members.  The builder can build whatever they want
and we have the right to either accept or reject those changes.  Said
differently, just because they build it doesn't me it is legal on the
water.

The wiser question to ask is how the class is organized as to who has
the right to authorize these changes from within the class.

Ken Crawford
99926

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-laser@cerebus.winsite.com
[mailto:owner-laser@cerebus.winsite.com] On Behalf Of John D-E
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 7:51 PM
To: 'Mike Schmidt'; 'Tracy Usher'
Cc: laser@laser.org; 'Laser Masters E-Mail List'
Subject: RE: Radial mast Changes

Mike, the class is owned by the licensed builders.  The boats are built
according to a builders manual that is confidential (and "interestingly"
registered with the ISAF).  There is no rule in the rule book that says
what material the mast shall be made from.  The first part of the
fundamental rule is:

"The laser shall be raced in accordance with these rules, with only the
hull, equipment, type of equipment, placing or equipment, fittings, type
of fittings, spars, sail and battens as supplied by the builder except
when such an alteration or change is specifically authorised by Part 3
of these rules.

The introduction, however, to by-law 1 states:

The principle of the Laser Class Rules is that no changes to the boat
are allowed unless they are specifically permitted by Class Rules.

The Object of Part One states:

The Laser is a strict one design dinghy where the true test, when raced,
is between helmspersons and not between boats and equipment.

One could argue changing to the composite topmast is a change to the
boat (it certainly is in the common use of those words) but then again
"as supplied by the builder" can cover a multitude of sins.  It would be
very interesting to see what the manual states about mast construction.


John D-E
D5 Sec
Who will be 59 for a long time.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Schmidt [mailto:halibut@mindspring.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 8:05 PM
To: 'Tracy Usher'; john@jdecm.com
Cc: laser@laser.org; 'Laser Masters E-Mail List'
Subject: RE: Radial mast Changes

Tracey,

What I'm still trying to understand is - if we defeated the original
proposal by membership vote, how is it that we are now being overruled
and the composite section introduced?

I'm not saying whether the section is good or bad - but what happened to
the process of approving significant changes in the strict one design
rules?
What's next - a carbon fiber hull?  Kevlar sails?  Do we get to decide?
Who does?

Who really controls the Laser class today?  Not the membership, or so it
would appear.

Your insights appreciated...Mike Schmidt

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-laser@cerebus.winsite.com
[mailto:owner-laser@cerebus.winsite.com] On Behalf Of Tracy Usher
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 6:45 PM
To: john@jdecm.com
Cc: laser@laser.org; 'Laser Masters E-Mail List'
Subject: Re: Radial mast Changes

John D-E wrote:

>My recollection is that the class voted down the composite mast section
a
>few years ago.   The claim that heavier sailors do not suffer a
performance
>loss is "interesting".   Its also interesting the Laser Class (i.e. you
and
>me) having voted down the change now appears to be funding it.  Also 
>interesting that ISAF has to be advised and even vote on it yet the 
>average laser sailor does not.  The "Regulation/Racing Rule/Affected"
>is stated to be "Women's One Person Dinghy Mast".
>
>John D-E
>District 5 Sec
>Grand Master who wants to stay with full rig at Masters Worlds when he
turns
>65 in 2101.
>  
>
>

You are correct... in the 1999 vote which brought us the "new" rigging
the then proposal for a carbon spar was, I'm told, narrowly defeated. At
that time no prototypes existed, no cost estimates or targets were in
place, etc., etc.

The claim that heavier sailors do not suffer is a characteristic of the
composite, versus aluminum, spar. The explanation given to me is that
the composite spar has a higher spring constant so "snaps back" faster
than the aluminum and so "feels" like a stiffer spar. The heavier person
has the same "fee" as aluminum, the lighter person gets the benefit of a
more flexible spar. I'll comment further if I ever get my 200lbs on a
boat with one though...

I think a lot of people want to believe that the Laser Class doesn't
listen to their complaints about problems with the boat. Here is an
example of the class listening and trying to find a real solution to
several problems: the competitive weight range of the Radial is
perceived to be to narrow and too high, the upper mast section is prone
to failure and develops permanent bends (both due primarily to riveting
the mast collar into place), etc.

Both the Laser and Radial are Olympic classes. It is standard in the
Olympic Contract between the Olympic Classes and ISAF that they have to
be informed of any changes to the equipment and does give them the right
to veto any changes they think are not in the best interest of the class
and the Olympics. For the RS-X boards I bet they are very pro-active in
this area.
But do you think they are going to exercise that right with the Laser
Class?
Especially when seen by everyone as making the Radial even more
accessible to more competitors worldwide?

Once again, I would like to encourage everyone who wants more background
information to go over to The Laser Forum (www.laserforum.org) and
search for the threads on the carbon spar. You can find a lot of
comments in those threads, from Vanguard representatives (who have
spearheaded the R&D effort) to feedback from people who have sailed with
the spars. And check out the Ned Jones Q&A in the Summer Laser Sailor. 
There IS a lot of info out there about these spars!

Tracy
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